Cedric Fisher: "earnestly contending for the faith."

A Little Talk With Jesus?

(The modern Christian’s obsessive love affair with music.)

Remember this old song? The chorus begins with:

“Let us have a little talk with Jesus,
Let us tell Him all about our troubles.”

The song goes on to mention a “prayer wheel.” A prayer wheel is a Buddhist originated instrument with mantras written on it. The writer of the song, Cleavant Derricks, likely did not know that fact. In the early part of the last century some Christians, including Billy Graham, openly used prayer wheels.[i]Apparently, according to a recent discovery of the Liesborn Prayer Wheel, the use of a prayer wheel in Christianity goes back to the 12thcentury. It has been defined as a map of “the soul’s journey to God” or “a Christian way of life,” a “meditation aid” and “a study guide.”[ii]I advise against spinning a prayer wheel to “have a little talk with Jesus.”

However, millions of people, including me, have sung that song with gusto not realizing that, although it was entertaining, it did not contain solid doctrine. In fact, if we consider all the troubles or the seriousness of our trials, we may need much more than a “little talk with Jesus” to “make it right.” We should know that God’s word instructs us to pray to God, not to Jesus—but we pray in Jesus’ name. It is also a fact that Jesus is not “a friend that guides us day and night,” but the Holy Spirit is our guide.

The song represents what is wrong with so-called Gospel music, and Christian music in general. Please do not misunderstand me. There are some godly singers and songwriters in Christian music and I’m personally acquainted with a few of them. But merely because a song is appealing, well sung, and stirs our emotions does not make it sound doctrine. As it is with preaching and teaching, it takes a genuine relationship with God to write songs with substance. Reading an old hymnbook often makes me weep at the richness of line after line saturated with meaning.

I often hear Christian songs that are not only void of any helpful substance, but are pollinated with heresy. Some Contemporary Christian Music could be sung in a nightclub, or a New Age church. Amy Grant, dubbed the “Queen of Contemporary Christian Music,” once said that the best Christian songs were “god/girlfriend” songs, i.e., songs that could be sung to God or your girlfriend. No thanks!

Now this may be controversial, but it needs to be said. Numerous professing Christians have apostatized and many are daily falling like autumn leaves onto the path of heresy. It is not only because of heresy from the pulpits, or a lack of doctrine in their personal lives, but the tremendous obsession with heretical music.

Music has moved numerous churches away from a focus on God’s word and the leading of the Holy Spirit. In cases I am aware of where music has become the main attraction, the obligatory sermon is casually tacked on at the end. Obsession with music has become so powerful that music by groups associated with dangerously heretical churches is completely accepted.

Several years I had a conversation with a young man concerning Bethel Music. The young man argued that because the musicians were very talented and their music contained what he considered to be sometruth, that I was wrong to condemn them.

What if you were very hungry and Satan handed you somebread? To ignore the source is to ignore the intent, which is to ignore the danger.

Ever wonder if Satan or demons can sing? If Satan could sing, would he sing a Christian song? Would it be sung well, enormously appealing, and perhaps rise to the top of the music charts?

Yes, Satan would sing, and most likely does so. He might sing, “Jesus Loves Me” with sarcaism dripping as posion slobber from a Kmodo Dragon. Or he may croon a poetic and captivating song with a psuedo-Christian hook. Our flesh may want to weep, dance, or sing along when we heard the music. We might even raise our hands in worship.

Finally, the australian musical Megachurch, Hillsong, recently became a denomination. I believe that it is the first denomination not founded on a great revival, the efforts of godly Christians, or on a biblical belief system, but on music. It was not bad music in the beginning, but it became bad as they became large and popular. Their doctrine became laced with heresy, the musical presentations became secular in style, and even salacious, and they continue to grow numerically.

We should expect nothing less in the last days period of great deception and apostasy. The pragmatism of using whatever means necessary to lure people into a building does nothing to get them into God’s kingdom.

The “siren song” inHomer’s Odysseypromised to Odysseus that he would know great truths and live to tell them. However, the siren’s song lulled sailor’s to sleep, and then the sirens would tear them to pieces.

“Their song, though irresistibly sweet, was no less sad than sweet, and lapped both body and soul in a fatal lethargy, the forerunner of death and corruption.” – Walter Copland Perry; Wikipedia

Likewise, music capturing the hearts, indeed souls, of Christian generations is very alluring, compelling, and seductive. That appears to be the only standard by which it is deemed good and acceptable. I am a musician and songwriter, so music has a strong pull on my spirit. I know the experience of being hooked on music because of its carnal attraction rather than its spiritual benefit. Therefore, I can explain from experience that the power of the unregulated and unaccountable music industry is no minor issue.

The Apostle Paul wrote to a church that majored on emotion, man worship, and even toleration of incest, rather than sound doctrine and practices.

“For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.” (1 Corinthians 2:2)

Pentecostalism and the Charismatic Movement are prone to major on emotion. I have witnessed emotional frenzy whipped up by music in church meetings. The belief was that the Holy Spirit had arrived. No wonder the Seekers and other Millennials believe that the Holy Spirit arrives with the grinding, throbbing, rhythms of the worship band, and departs when the noise subsides.

Do not be deceived, beloved! This is a period of great, intense, and supernaturally clever deception. It would be a disaster to stumble this close to the finish line. When we begin to regard music more than God’s word then we desire the “dessert” much more than the main meal. We may as a result spiritually rot on the vine. But addiction to the “dessert” could be the very reason that people have gravitated to music-oriented church meetings. Consequently, God’s word has been relegated to low priority, and truly biblical and anointed preaching is deemed boring and even repulsive. Godly preachers and teachers are considered expendable.

Please consider that not in one scripture that pertains to faith, spiritual growth and maturity, the salvation of souls, and God’s gifts of leadership, mentions “music ministry,” “worship leaders,” or even of music as having any spiritual benefit in ministry.  Why then has modern Christians consigned God ordained ministry subordinate to music?

The Apostle Paul wrote:

“All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.” – 1 Corinthians 6:12

Edify: Greek; oikodomeō, build up, construct, establish. Biblical usage includes; to found, establish, to promote growth in Christian wisdom, affection, grace, virtue, holiness, blessedness, to grow in wisdom and piety.

The question is, how far is this musical perversion of Christianity going to go? It go as far as Satan wishes to take it. And who’s going to stop him now that professing Christians have accepted his standard for determining good and evil? Where it is going is out of the realm of fidelity to and respect for God’s word and into the realm of the primacy of flesh with religion tagging along on a leash. For example, some churches are involved in “Beer and Hymn Night,” where they guzzle the suds and sing like duds. Shame on the leaders for allowing this to occur, and without even a mild protest!

When individuals decide that gratifying the flesh is the best way to be a Christian, Christianity becomes nothing more than a cruise ship without rules on the open sea. Professing Christians taking that cruise will have much to be ashamed of when they stand before God.

[i]The History of Christianity in 25 Objects: Billy Graham’s Prayer Wheel

Tim Challies, Challies.com, March 13, 2014

[ii]How Readers Solved the Mystery of the Prayer Wheel, Religion News Service, May 5, 2015


  1. Linda

    What I find interesting about CCM is the focus on the exact themes of the apostasy. You can count on it, you have unity at all cost, you have dominionism, you have contemplative, you have pantheism, you have the opposite of discipleship.
    I will give one example of each, although there are many.

    There is one song that has a lyric “we all bleed the same.” Well yes, we do, but we are not the same. Some are saved, others are not, and then you have false denominations. And often it is when you hear the singer expound upon the meaning underlying the song that they reveal their emphasis on ‘unity,’ or the name of a conference, like ‘onething,’ or more simply; ‘one.’ The list goes on with that and it has been increasing dramatically.

    There are many about ‘kingdom building,’ and I don’t mean in a share the gospel kind of way. There is a difference between the kingdom being ‘among us’ and paradise being restored. Well dominionism is a major heresy that is paving the way for the church to embrace the NWO under antichrist, his ‘utopia’ kingdom. SO many songs include some aspect of this. I include some lyrics of one:
    “If not us, then who
    If not me and you
    Right now, it’s time for us to do something, yeah
    If not now, then when
    Will we see an end
    To all this pain
    Oh, it’s not enough to do nothing
    It’s time for us to do something”
    Yes, it is good to do good. But the lyrics are unmistakable that he does not anticipate Jesus bringing the kingdom and restoring paradise at His return, he thinks that ‘we’ have to ‘make the world a better place.’ Toby Mac also has endless inuendos like that.

    Then you have all the terms about ‘breathing.’ This refers to the contemplative ‘breath’y type of prayers and such.
    Does ‘breathing in your grace, breathing out your praise’ ring a bell?

    As for pantheism there is a song that has a lyric ‘You are the universe,’ where ‘you’ is referring to God. No, God is NOT the universe, He created the universe. He did not create Himself. He also cursed the earth at the fall, He did not curse Himself. God is separate from His creation, and that is the difference between what is Biblical and pantheism.

    Again, examples abound for each case. And then you have the endless songs about how ‘you can’t outrun God’s love.’ That is simply not Biblical. Yes, God loves you and pursues you, but He calls you to repent and follow Him. If you go too far astray and harden your heart, which you can do, at some point He gives you your way.

    I see these same themes over and over in modern CCM.
    I’m not saying it’s all bad. I don’t believe it is all bad. There are some songs that have lyrics without any problems and they don’t sound ‘worldly’. I don’t always know the singer/songwriter and sometimes don’t really want to know. But most of it is of the pied piper apostasy variety leading the church astray down it’s yellow brick road and the devil’s lullaby for the church.

    • Linda

      I also want to add that under that last one they give the idea that… it doesn’t matter how much you sin… you are still ‘okay,’ and God still ‘loves you,’ and chases you down as if you couldn’t get away even if you wanted to.
      Also, the notion that God loves you ‘just the way you are,’ as if you don’t need to change or repent at all.
      None of that is Biblical, and many things along those lines are what I notice the most in today’s apostate CCM.
      Often they have even the opposite meaning than the Biblical one.
      One example is a song about being an ‘overcomer.’
      The true meaning is that we have overcome the world and its ways and have triumphed over practicing sin in our lives. This often means that we forego success in order to deny ourselves and more fully follow Jesus in the way of discipleship. It can be any number of things. But the song gives the impression that is the total opposite, more like success in life and in the world along the lines of climbing the corporate ladder, health and wealth, and so on.
      Not to mention the loud, brashy, sassy tone of most of the singers!
      Well needless to say, I’m not listening any longer but got a feeling for what was going on there.

  2. GJ

    1 Keep thy foot when thou goest to the house of God, and be more ready to hear, than to give the sacrifice of fools: for they consider not that they do evil. 2 Be not rash with thy mouth, and let not thine heart be hasty to utter any thing before God: for God is in heaven, and thou upon earth: therefore let thy words be few. 3 For a dream cometh through the multitude of business; and a fool’s voice is known by multitude of words. Ecclesiastes 5

  3. Linda

    I gathered another collection of Bible verses about refuting, rebuking, and warning:

    “It is better to heed a wise man’s rebuke than to listen to the song of fools.” Ecclesiastes 7; 5
    “Do not rebuke a mocker or he will hate you; rebuke a wise man, and he will love you.” Proverbs 9; 8
    “He who listens to life-giving reproof will dwell among the wise. He who ignores discipline despises himself, but whoever heeds correction gains understanding. The fear of the LORD is the instruction of wisdom, and humility comes before honor.” Proverbs 15; 31-33
    “The wounds of a friend are faithful, but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.” Proverbs 27; 6
    “Let the righteous smite me; it shall be a kindness: and let him reprove me; it shall be an excellent oil, which shall not break my head: for yet my prayer also shall be in their calamities.” Psalms 141; 5

    Also in 2 Chronicles 18; 4-7 (below) is an account of ‘negative’ versus ‘positive’ prophesies:

    “Also Jehoshaphat said to the king of Israel, “Please inquire for the word of the Lord today.” Then the king of Israel gathered the prophets together, four hundred men, and said to them, “Shall we go to war against Ramoth Gilead, or shall I refrain?” So they said, “Go up, for God will deliver it into the king’s hand.”
    But Jehoshaphat said, “Is there not still a prophet of the Lord here, that we may inquire of Him?” So the king of Israel said to Jehoshaphat, “There is still one man by whom we may inquire of the Lord; but I hate him, because he never prophesies good concerning me, but always evil. He is Micaiah the son of Imla.” ”
    Ironically, what Micaiah prophesied was true, and it would have been good for the king of Israel to have heeded his words!

  4. Linda

    A Wonderful Rebuttal to the ‘health and wealth’ prosperity gospel heresy:
    (Please replicate and circulate as desired!)

    Promise of ‘health and wealth’ a heresy

    There has been a very destructive heresy for some time that claims that if one is a Christian, they should be totally healthy and even wealthy as a result of God’s ‘blessings.’ But this is not Biblical. This heresy goes by the following names; health and wealth, name it and claim it, positive confession, word of faith, and prosperity gospel in various circles.
    Even though there are Bible verses that do state that blessings will follow godly living, this is something that is generally true and not a guarantee. If you live right, the natural consequences in your life will be good ones in general, and if you live in ways that are wrong and sinful, bad things will follow. The Bible supports that view all throughout and that is truth. Even those who don’t believe in God have noticed this. In addition, there are times when as a result of godly living, God chooses to give blessings, or additional blessings to a person. That is also true. But the heresy enters when people claim that good things, or even only good things, imperatively must follow from living a godly life. That is NOT Biblical. There are MANY cases where people lived a totally godly live and suffered from illness and poverty. Sometimes people suffered from poverty as a result of living a godly life, just as persecution often follows it.
    Another aspect of their heresy enters into the area of occultic beliefs. It falsely puts you, instead of God, at the locus of control. You are the one they claim can ‘call things into being, existence, or change your reality’ in some way in a manner that is pleasing to you. But you are not God, and only God can do these things as only He is sovereign, not us. Now we are given certain powers as Christians. We have powers to cast out demons, sometimes for miracles such as for healing, resurrections, etc. But these are over spiritual beings or for the good of others. That is the difference. ‘Moving mountains’ is not about acquiring piles of wealth and luxury. That is not our focus on this earth. Also, all things we request MUST be aligned with the will of God, or they are in vain. All too often, things are taken out of context. Jesus did say to ask anything in His name, but obviously this does not apply to personal wealth and things of the fleshly desires. When you look at the rest of His teachings as well as in context with the whole Bible, you see that this would lead to a contradiction in belief. It is interesting to note that occultic religions such as witchcraft also involve some form of ritualistic action, superstition, invocations and incantations to procure some desire of the flesh, with the self as the ‘locus of control,’ along with mysterious ‘forces of the universe’ at work. For instance, they may shower a photo of a loved one with rose petals or stick a doll who looks like someone they hate with needles to obtain a desired result (voodoo). They recite some statements that are supposed to ‘set things in motion’ to obtain their desire. It is much like making a sacrifice to an idol (demonic false god) and uttering their request. Obviously all of this is the opposite of Christianity. We are not here to rattle off a list of carnal desires, but rather to serve the Lord as we deny our flesh, carry our cross, and follow Jesus even unto suffering and death. When one reads the whole Bible in context one can see this reality of the Christian life very clearly.
    Another aspect of their heresy is that they claim that if you are still sick or in trouble, it is a result of some form of ‘sin in your life,’ some sort of ‘lack of faith,’ or that if you take medicine you are ‘lacking faith in God to heal you.’ All of these are unbiblical conclusions. Now again, that is not to say that this cannot be the case. Sin can lead to illness, as a punishment or a natural consequence, or other trouble. So can a lack of faith. But this is not always the case. That is the main problem this heresy results from, over generalizing and over extending something to the point that it is not true.
    One counter example of these ‘promises’ involve child bearing. In the Bible God names a list of blessings versus curses for those who obey and disobey Him, respectively. Barrenness is one of the curses. Yet, there is a long list of godly women who were barren. We have Sarah, Rebecca, Rachel, Hannah the mother of Samuel, the mother of John the Baptist, the woman who helped Elisha the prophet, and the list goes on and on. Also, God had a purpose in them being barren for a while. When they did conceive, it was sort of a miracle and a type of the virgin birth among other things. The birth usually resulted in someone who would be mightily used by God.
    Now for a look at sickness, disease, and illness. One of the best counter examples to their claim is Job. This is because the Bible specifically states that Job was righteous. He did not get sick as a result of some sin in his life, hidden or not. He was allowed to get very sick because God allowed for Job to be tested and allowed the devil to cause the illness. We all know how that story went, and God specifically declared that Job was not being punished with sickness or any of the other tragedies as a result of some sin. Then there is the case of the blind man who Jesus heals. The disciples ask Jesus if he was blind as the result of some sin, but Jesus says that no, but rather that the glory of God can be manifest by the healing miracle Jesus was to perform. Sickness and death entered the human race at the Garden of Eden as a result of the fall of man. It falls on the just and the unjust just like rain, as the Bible says. Good and bad things happen to both godly and ungodly people. There is a reason for this seeming randomness. In the case of Job, we hear satan accuse Job as only serving God because of the blessings that he receives as a result, and God proves him wrong! There are many other cases in the Bible of righteous people suffering some form of illness and it is not a result of sin, but just the fallen state of what we inherited from the fall. Elisha is another example. He was totally godly, even received the mantle of Elijah, but later he became sick and died of the illness. (2 Kings 13; 14, 20-21) Then we have king Hezekiah (2 Kings 20) who becomes sick and it appears he is going to die. He prays and God extends his life a certain amount of years longer. He was also a godly man. At times, God sends something like this along as an act of mercy, to remove someone from a bad situation that will come up in the near future to spare them that experience or to keep them from going in a direction that would not be in their best interest.
    Then we have the issue of taking medicine. In 2 Kings 20; 7, the prophet even tells Hezekiah to take a certain medicine for his treatment, even though he prayed to God for healing. God just chose to meet the need that way instead of by a total miracle. We also see at times that Jesus, when He healed the blind, would take some dirt and mix it with saliva for some sort of mud that was put over the eyes. Sometimes it was just without anything else. We don’t always know the reason for all of this, but there is no ‘magic formula’ in the way God works. Also, we have Paul, who was ill with a certain ‘thorn in his flesh’ that he asked God to heal him of, but the answer was ‘no.’ Was Paul not godly enough? That was not the issue. God allowed the thorn for His purposes. Then there is the case where Paul tells Timothy to take some wine as medicine for his frequent stomach illnesses. This could be a result of his missionary travels and drinking foreign water with different bacteria that his stomach was not used to, and a little alcohol would kill the bacteria. But Paul is telling him to take medicine. He is not asking him if there is any sin in his life. He is not accusing him of a lack of faith in God to heal him. He is just prescribing a practical solution. Not every problem in our lives requires a miracle to solve. I hear of cases today where people are divinely healed of cancer. It really took a miracle of God to heal them and doctors were without explanation and the glory went to God. At other times our healing may come from another means when it is less dramatic, like a simple cold, and there is nothing wrong with turning to a practical solution that is available. Now if someone thinks that only medicine can heal them and has no faith in God to heal them (if He chose to do it that way), then that is another matter. There is a case like that in there too where one man is rebuked for turning to medicine instead of having faith in God to heal him. That was a special situation. I know God can do anything. But that does not require Him to perform a miracle every time there is a problem.
    Now to the issue of poverty. Sure, there are cases of the ungodly squandering their money and ending up in poverty, such as the Prodigal son. But there are many more who are poor BECAUSE they are godly, as a result of others who are ungodly and are cheating them out of what is rightfully theirs. We see examples of that all over the world since the beginning of time. Oppression of the greedy and rich against the poor is a common theme in the Bible. (One of many examples where it is condemned is in Leviticus 25; 17, 35) We know of cases where people choose to do the right thing by avoiding corrupt business practices and are closer to poverty as a result, and those who chose to do the wrong things are much richer as a result. We also know the Bible’s warnings about all of this. The Bible is full of examples of the poor being oppressed by the rich, and God’s rebukes on the rich oppressors as a result. They are poor BECAUSE they are godly, they refrain from cheating and oppressing the others, but they are the victims of oppression by the ungodly who are rich and greedy, thus resulting in yet more poverty for the godly and more riches for the ungodly. It is hard to go very far without seeing modern examples of this in everyday life anywhere in the world.
    The Bible specifically mentions those who are both poor and righteous. So it cannot be assumed that anyone is automatically poor as a result of not being godly enough, or as the result of some sin. In Proverbs 19; 1, it states;
    “Better is the poor who walks in his integrity
    Than one who is perverse in his lips, and is a fool.”
    We also see that helping the poor is a good thing all over the Bible, and if poverty was a punishment for sin, then this would not be a good thing. See verse 17 below.
    “He who has pity on the poor lends to the LORD,
    And He will pay back what he has given.”
    “If there is among you a poor man of your brethren, within any of the gates in your land which the LORD your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart nor shut your hand from your poor brother, but you shall open your hand wide to him and willingly lend him sufficient for his need, whatever he needs.” Deuteronomy 15; 7
    Leviticus 25; 35-36, Luke 14; 13-14, Jeremiah 22; 16, and all of Isaiah 58 makes this point.
    Then we have the epistle James, where he rebukes those who favor the rich over the poor brethren in church.
    In 1 Timothy 6, Paul in verse 5 rebukes “men of depraved mind and deprived of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain.”
    Then it goes on to say in 7-10; “For we have brought nothing into the world, so we cannot take anything out of it either. If we have food and covering, with these we shall be content. But those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a snare and many foolish and harmful desires which plunge men into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.”
    And if that’s not enough, in verses 17-19 he goes on to say that those who are rich should use their wealth to help the poor brethren; “Instruct those who are rich in this present world not to be conceited or to fix their hope on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who richly supplies us with all things to enjoy. Instruct them to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share, storing up for themselves the treasure of a good foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of that which is life indeed.”
    So if you do come into riches, you are to use the wealth by sharing with the poor brethren, not to wallow in personal luxury! Another aspect of the heresy is instead of having faith in God, people focus on their faith and it becomes a ‘faith in their faith’ to procure a certain desired result, which borders on that danger of trying to play God.
    In Revelation, as in many other parts of the New Testament, we see that poverty is even to be esteemed ABOVE riches! In Revelation 2; 9, Jesus is addressing Christians in the church who are poor, but godly, and states that spiritually they are rich; “‘I know your tribulation and your poverty (but you are rich)…” and in Revelation 3; 17-18 Jesus is telling those who are rich that they are poor; “Because you say, “I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have need of nothing,” and you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked, I advise you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself, and that the shame of your nakedness will not be revealed; and eye salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see.” So Jesus is telling the poor in the church that they are spiritually rich, and the rich in the church that they are spiritually poor! So tell Jesus again what a blessing it is to be rich, and how that is such a ‘sign’ of God’s favor, your faith, and the godly sinless life that you are leading… and see how far you get!
    Then we have the issue of persecution. Jesus promised us that if we follow Him correctly, we will suffer persecution and that takes many forms. It involves beatings, torture, martyrdom, imprisonment, slander, loss of livelihood which does result in poverty, being ostracized from family, friends, and society, mockery, loneliness, and more. This flies right in the face from the lie of the devil that God’s will for our life is all ‘health and wealth,’ and all things ‘warm and fuzzy’! In 2 Corinthians 11; 23-27 Paul accounts what he has suffered so far (he was later martyred in Rome): “…in far more labors, in far more imprisonments, beaten times without number, often in danger of death. Five times I received from the Jews thirty-nine lashes. Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was stoned, three times I was shipwrecked, a night and a day I have spent in the deep. I have been on frequent journeys, in dangers from rivers, dangers from robbers, dangers from my countrymen, dangers from the Gentiles, dangers in the city, dangers in the wilderness, dangers on the sea, dangers among false brethren; I have been in labor and hardship, through many sleepless nights, in hunger and thirst, often without food, in cold and exposure.” Oh, I failed to see ‘health’ and ‘wealth’ on that list!
    The author of Hebrews goes down the Faith ‘hall of fame,’ and among the things experienced by those who HAD faith are included: “Women received back their dead by resurrection; and others were tortured, not accepting their release, so that they might obtain a better resurrection; and others experienced mockings and scourgings, yes, also chains and imprisonment. They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were tempted, they were put to death with the sword; they went about in sheepskins, in goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, ill-treated (men of whom the world was not worthy), wandering in deserts and mountains and caves and holes in the ground. And all these, having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised, because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect.” Hebrews 11; 35-40
    That last bit should remove all doubt. It is much better to be poor and suffer here and have our rich and glorious reward in heaven; than to be rich here, and poor in heaven! There are many wolves who go around spreading such poisonous heresy, and it results in the faith of many being shipwrecked when the circumstances of their lives do not align with all things ‘warm and fuzzy’ and at the first occurrence of some tragedy in their lives. God did not promise us a life void of pain and suffering. He does promise to be in it with us and bring us through it. And believe it or not, there are even reasons for our suffering here on earth. The Bible makes that topic clear as well, but that is another subject that I won’t go into too deeply here. I will just say that fiery trials are part of life and tribulations are promised to the Christians. Some of the purposes are that it builds our character, it refines us spiritually, it builds our faith, we trust and rely on God and see His deliverance in action, we can identify with others who suffer just as Jesus did, we are following Jesus in His suffering, and if it is persecution then we get glory in heaven. We are tested and tried and proven to be more than ‘fair weather followers’ of Jesus. We are not just ‘in it for the blessings.’ We are with Him through ‘thick and thin.’ But that is another subject in itself.
    I can’t emphasize it enough how crucial it is to read the Bible from cover to cover and within a year to truly have a well rounded understanding of the full counsel of God so you won’t get hijacked by dangerous and destructive heresies like the prosperity gospel! These heresies from straight from the deception of the devil!

    (Cedric, sorry this is so long, please use or edit this to fit as needed. I know it’s off topic, but felt the need to share this now. You are welcome to use all or any of the material in your own post if you like, or share it however and with whomever you wish. If you choose to cite anyone just cite an ‘anonymous servant.’)
    Thanks and God’s blessings to you!

  5. ken Hall

    I went to assembly today with trepidation. Really. I know Hebrews 10 says this, “24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: 25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some [is]; but exhorting [one another]: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.” [Heb 10:24-25 KJV] . I am at a loss to figure out and help on our local assembly situation. I would like to be a catalyst for change there and not give up on them. That brings me to the point where I tell you why I tagged this reply with that introduction. Can the music of undisciplined and un-Godly lyrics in CCM be at the root of why an assembly’s pastors cannot pray publicly or preach the Word of God. Does letting apostate music, engendered by the evil one, cause men of God who wear the pastor’s mantle to be so far out of the will of God that they lose even the ability to study and prepare a wholesome sermon or be able to pray with anointing for their flock? I believe that the CCM of today can do just that. When you are charged to oversee the flock of God and then let apostate influences enter in and confuse, and even worse, and cause them to not discern for themselves the voices of the wolves at the door of the church house. The word of God says that their blood is on the hands of the prophet who does this. “17 Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me. 18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked [man] shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. 19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul. 20 Again, When a righteous [man] doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand. 21 Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous [man], that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul.” [Eze 3:17-21 KJV]

    Folks, I am righteously mad about the church house and its apostacy. I have been in a bunch of bad church house situations, from pastors committing fraud , embezzling assembly funds, to the ostracizing of good people for speaking the truth and exposing error, etc, etc BUT today’s assemblies are outright devilish in their choice of congregational music. I know that am going to make some people mad when I say that songs like Good good Father, All the poor and powerless, and the like are apostate CCM. So be it. Even the song “My Chains are Gone, I’ve been set free” is a rip-off of the great old hymn “Amazing Grace”. Chris Tomlin wrote a little ditty chorus and cashed in nicely. He tacked the My chains are gone, I’ve been set free, my God , my Savior has ransomed me. And like a flood, His mercy reigns, unending love, amazing grace. I say, “what about obedience”. I call that chorus an “antinomian” abuse of grace. Search the writer’s pedigree and see what you find. He teams with Lou Giglio on some songwriting projects. The young, the restless, and reformed is where the majority of current CCM has it genesis. Sorry folks, I am not reformed. I think Calvinism is at the forefront of the apostacy.

    I apologize for the “rant” Christian friends, brothers and sisters. The assembly at the meeting house “set me off”. I came home and remembered that I had not written my reply to C.H.’s article about CCM and this is what transpired. Forgive me. Following is an article that I wrote awhile back on the subject.

    • Linda

      Hi Ken,

      I totally understand. And ‘forsake not the assembling of the brethren’ only applies when you find an assembly that is not apostate, as of course we need to separate from apostasy. There is not always a fine line for making that determination and some of us may be sensitive to this, another to that, etc. If there was only a Catholic church in town, obviously we know not to go. If there are only emergent churches, we can’t go either, etc. I have found some that were not that far gone yet but at some point they crossed that ‘line,’ and you will know when the Holy Spirit is telling you it’s time to leave. I have done the ‘stay and warn’ thing too, sadly it never got anywhere. I have had a few ladies come over for Bible study, one from one of the churches, only to find they were too cemented into the apostasy and I had to cut them loose out of disobedience (not confessing that sodomy and abortion are sins, etc.). If someone does not believe that the Bible is God’s Word, I have no more time to waste on them in doing a Bible study with them… until they do. I’ve tried to set up a house church, no fish were biting. It’s pretty depressing.

      Now as for types like Chris Tomlin, it is true of all of them, it is a network of apostasy and you will search in vain to find one who is not in their ‘network.’ An interesting website is New Jerusalem Chronicle, there is a link called ‘wolves in sheep’s clothing,’ that exposes these guys, that most would never believe if you told them, be sure to check out the Michael Smith details. He has the documentation too. Then there was this guy named John Todd. There is info. on him as well still out on the internet. Below is a summary of what he said.

      Basically, besides the churches being infiltrated and hijacked by the apostasy, which was orchestrated to get them on board with the NWO, a big part of it was with CCM. Now again, I’m not saying all of it is bad and that only ‘old hymns’ have God’s approval. I could write a song to the Lord right now, it would be contemporary in the sense of current, but not in the sense of ‘with the ways and styles of the world’ in my case. It might not include every doctrine of the faith. But it can still be good. But the problem is that he said there was a hijacking of it. And it goes waaaay back, like to the 60’s. He said that with any music, whether it is Christian or secular, there is something going on spiritually. It goes beyond the lyrics. There are certain rhythms and beats for instance that are used by tribes to conjure up demons. Some have noticed the same beats in some CCM. Has anyone else noticed the incessant drumbeats in some of this stuff? (I keep an eye and ear out in many places for good reasons.) It’s very hypnotic to say the least. The lyrics are only one of the problems. Well he also talked about when rock n’ roll came out. He said that the churches were all against it, and predicted that it would lead to a lot of rebellion in society since it seems to inspire rebellion. This awareness scared the occultic ‘globalists’ behind it all. People laughed the warnings to scorn, but take a look at society now compared to the 50’s! They were right! And most secular lyrics are anti-Christian to the core. Sadly, it is bad enough that Christians listen to much of CCM, but some even listen to secular music that glorifies sin and rebellion. If you even listen to the lyrics instead of letting them brainwash you, you will see what I mean. Listen to John Lennon’s ‘imagine’ for starters! Do you get the gospel message out of it, or the opposite? Research the Beatles. There is a photo of them holding upside down crosses. They said they were ‘more famous than Jesus.’ They brought in all that ‘eastern’ stuff too. Try it with all the songs you hear, Christian or secular. Listen to the words carefully. And here we are, in 2018, and a good Christian girl can’t even find a ‘Christian’ man (in search of a husband) who is willing to wait until the wedding night! So single we remain. Back then, even non Christians waited! But what are they all listening to now? I can’t even find a ‘Christian’ who is like me and only listens to Christian music! (Not Bethel or Hillsong either, research exempt). Anyway there is something in the music that puts a spell on you, it can even be a curse, hypnosis, brainwashing, or just a plain rebellious spirit. It does have an influence on you. Also when you read the Psalms it talks about the music of the Lord and there were a lot of stringed instruments, and the music was lovely and melodic, not this dissonant, chaotic garbage that grates on your ears and nerves. Just the notes and beats alone conjure up rebellion, not to mention the words! This all goes back to the worship of God and music that is for the Lord or the devil. Anyway it’s a very interesting read!

      It is interesting also that I heard one of the commentaries by the writer of ‘good, good father,’ and he said that the goal was to ‘get back to the core.’ Notice that the song does not mention Jesus. What came out at me was the one world religion, where they think that God is at ‘the core,’ and they can just leave out all the ‘extra stuff,’ like Jesus. Well no, you can’t have the Father without the Son, He is IN the CORE! If you don’t have Jesus, you don’t have God and/or the ‘core’ either! But that is the direction things are heading in with the one world religion, it is not the same God, but they will be convinced otherwise. With his help too, of course, in writing that song. What else could he mean by ‘the core,’ and leaving out Jesus??? Anyone from any false religion could sing it then. Their platform is ‘the common ground’ and ‘the common good.’ Certain buzz words and code language is used.

      And I totally agree about all that ‘reformed’ stuff. A great book on that is by Dave Hunt “What Love Is This?” at Berean Call and Lighthouse Trails. Calvinism is spreading like wildfire and they are falling like flies. I will share an interesting scenario I keep running into that I will generalize below:

      Bob: Hi Alan! Do you know Jesus?
      Alan: Yes, I got saved last summer! I was born again when I turned to Jesus and He saved me by His grace as a free gift, repented of my sin, received His sacrificial atonement for my sin, surrendered to Him fully and asked Him to enter my heart and He did! I was raised unto new life in the power of His resurrection and now the Holy Spirit is guiding me to live in obedience to God.
      Bob: Oh, that’s great! But you are a Calvinist, right?
      Alan: What is that?
      Bob: Gasp! You don’t know Calvin?!
      Alan: No. So?
      Bob: Well, but according to all the right theologians, Calvinism ‘is’ the gospel! So, like, you can’t even be saved unless you are a Calvinist.
      Alan: But Bob, I am saved! I just told you how I got saved last summer! I turned to Jesus, and—–
      Bob: But you see, that’s just it! You can’t ‘choose’ Jesus, He must choose you!
      Alan: Huh? I did choose Jesus.
      Bob: But the Bible says that Jesus chooses us.
      Alan: Yes, I know He chooses us, but we choose Him too by our freewill.
      Bob: No! You can’t be saved if you believe that you were involved in the choice by your freewill, that’s not grace but works!
      Alan: No, it’s not! I was saved by grace. I responded to His call by choosing to turn to Jesus! I know I chose Him and somehow He chose me too. I really don’t know every detail about how that works behind the scenes, and I didn’t need to in order to get saved, and I don’t need to know now either. I don’t need to know how everything works behind the scenes in order to get saved, be saved, or stay saved. If Jesus pulled all the strings, or if I did, or if there is something from both ends, that I don’t know. Either way I got saved. He called my name and I came out of darkness into His marvelous light. I know I need to believe the basic gospel, and that’s what I did. I know I got saved because I was there when it happened! The basic gospel is that we are born sinners, Jesus died for our sins and rose again, we need to repent and turn to Him for forgiveness and atonement, He saves us by grace through faith, it is the only way, and we are born again and receive the Holy Spirit and are raised unto new life in Christ! THAT is the gospel! Not this weird Calvinism stuff! Bob, maybe it’s YOU who needs to get saved, because you don’t know that this is the saving gospel!
      Bob: Hmmm….. I’ll get back to you on that…

      • ken Hall

        Thanks for the encouragement and info Linda. You are right on in your replies. The assembling is ‘provisional’, like you say. The Lord does not tell us to stay at an apostate congregation and sing kumbaya. So Barb and I have pulled the plug again and try to worship at home and get closer to Jesus and each other as we wait on Him. We have ‘doubled down’ on prayer and doing our Spiritual regimen of verses we quote to the Lord each day. I try to stay abreast of current political and cultural happenings in the USA and around the world. I makes me almost physically sick to read news , even on what are called conservative websites. I do not watch tv. We do watch a few movies at home.

        I am reading along in the New Jerusalem Chronicle as we speak. Thanks for that lead. That guy affirms what I have discerned over the last 20 or so years. I would not touch Michael W. Smith with a 10 ft pole. On that note, please pray with me on this. Our son-in-law is a devotee of the band Dream Theater and teaching our grandsons to like their kind of trash. We want an opportunity to talk to them about this but I believe that well runs real deep, and if confronted with Dream Theater’s satanic roots by us, it would cause a great rift in our family. So please pray.

        I am blessed with the gift of discerning of spirits. If only, people would listen. But today they say I am just old-fashioned and judgmental, and they go about their merry apostate way, not knowing or caring to know what the Bible says about any thing that would hinder their comfort and ease. As we all say here, they are not listening and and surely not heeding. This is all we can do when we get a chance; ‘speak the Truth in love’ . I find it hard to believe that professing Christians can be so ignorant of God’s Word about the last days and the apostacy that they go along with most any devilish doctrine or practice that their false leaders promote and espouse. Like I have said before, they are believing the ‘lie’ and will wake up one day on the wrong side of the DOOR.

        The analogy about Calvinism’s adherents, and how that conversation usually goes, is spot on, in my experience. Dave Hunt is a Spiritual hero in my mind, and “What Love Is This? is the best book on Calvinism’s dangers. Calvinists want, and lean to, “heady religion”, where they supposedly put God in the highest esteem, but in reality, it is a controlling religion where they put onto God their responsibility. And thereby , in essence, they disingenuously absolve themselves of the responsibility of believing or rejecting the saving message, the Gospel that anyone of us must believe by the power our own will. ….Blessings, Ken

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