TruthKeepers

earnestly contending for the faith

We’re not going to win.

Christians that realize the evil faction attacking our nation is growing more powerful and brutal by the day. They are at their wits end about what to do. Some of them have put their hope in President Trump because the alternative is depressing and hopeless. That alternative is to hope that Christianity awakens and becomes a moral force again. Rife with heretics and other charlatans, and inundated with apostasy, it is not likely to occur.

For the ministers labeled “watchmen,” discernment ministers, truth speakers, et cetera, it even gets more stressful. When the watchmen speak, few people are willing to listen. Churches refuse to invite them because they “depress” the congregants. They are pushed so far out of mainstream Christianity that they have no pastorates. It came to mind recently that if the leaders in Christianity opposed the apostasy as they should, many pastors, TV hosts, authors, et al, would be working at menial secular jobs. The majority have never held a secular job and have no skills or qualifications.

There is a small, very loosely connected, army on the Internet who to the best of their abilities are trying to warn the sleepers. They write on Social Media, some of them have blogs or websites, and other ones have managed to get published.  It takes a lot of work and time researching and writing to expose the deep wickedness of any serious deception or developing heresy. They write posts that few people take the time to read. Additionally, the percentage is very small of the ones that read, make a comment, or click “like.” It is a fact in this text-message, Instagram, world that most people will not read anything over two paragraphs.

Adding to the burden is the number of heretic-lovers armed with keyboards, lacking knowledge and discernment, and in most cases deceived or delusional. They attack watchmen and anyone else that dares expose their beloved heretic to the light of truth. One never witnesses them defend truth, they never write anything that agrees with God’s word, or hints of opposing the encroaching darkness. One cannot have a cordial discussion with them. They have no respect for seasoned servants of God. They are convinced that light is darkness and darkness is light. One may as well try to convince a goat that is attempting to eat a piece of roofing that grass is much better. 

So the battle within the battle is a continual wrestling match with hopelessness, discouragement, stress, frustration, and even depression. There is little return in this life on their investment, and it certainly is not financially profitable. Many of them have simply given up trying to warn or inform anyone. They are withdrawing from anything that can remind them of how strong and rapid the darkness is approaching. Discernment ministers have shut down their websites and blogs and have ceased posting on Social Media. It is not a calling for the faint hearted and no one can do the job that does not pray much and often.

God enables, but we must not hinder Him by thinking that the sum of the burden must rest on our shoulders. If the reward was in this life then there would not be so much emphasis on heaven and the straight path that leads beyond the temporal realm. If the rewards are of this realm, then why is there still a race? Why is there a prize yet to be received? Why is there a finish line?

If we are going to endure and rise above the suffocating cloud of despair and all its ingredients, we must come to grips with a brutal fact. It is only brutal because the natural mind does not wish to hear and much less accept it. We are not going to “win” in this temporal realm. I realize that is one statement that will evoke protests and even some harsh responses. However, Christ said as much to His disciples. The disciples believed they would “win.” They believed at that time that Christ would become King over an earthly kingdom and restore Israel to her former greatness. Christ defined “win” as being publicly humiliated, falsely accused and convicted, being beaten nearly to death, and cruelly dying on a cross, and then rising from the dead.

The key word is “win. If by “win” we mean that we’re going to drive evil back into its lair, end abortion and other diabolically insensible acts, have a totally Conservative SCOTUS, and MAGA with a majority that respects Judeo-Christian values, then no, we’re not going to “win.”

If by “win” we mean that the heretics and other charlatans will be ejected from Christianity, that professing Christians will become passionate lovers of truth, that integrity and godliness will again become hallmarks from the pulpits to the pews, that fire kindled by intimacy with God, the unction to win souls, praying, fasting, and repenting, will be revived, we’re not going to “win.”

If we mean by “win” that we will sanitize TV and Hollywood, the Internet will become a decent place, the porn industry will be destroyed, our schools will again become safe, pedophiles and other sexual perverts will disappear, the drug epidemic will end, children will be safe on the streets, hunger and homelessness will cease, crime will be reduced to a trickle, atheism will be rejected from Universities, politics will become civil and ethical, terrorism will cease, God will be respected in the secular realm, et cetera, absolutely no—we are not going to “win.”

However, if we believe that “win” means that we will remain faithful to the end, that we will endure by faith without compromising, overcome by the blood of the Lamb and word of our testimonies, and receive a crown of life, then yes, we are going to win. We were created too big for this world. Satan wants to shrink us down in our minds so that we regard the temporal realm as the “heaven” that it is not. Instead, it is the domain of Satan—the god of this world—who has blinded the minds of billions that believe his lies and are rooted in his earthly, sensual, and demonic wisdom. (2 Corinthians 4:4; James 3:15)

I encourage every watchman, truth speakers, and writers, discernment ministers, prophets, to encourage yourselves with the right perspective. The only “kudo” worth longing for is the one you will hear from God when He says, “Well done, good and faithful servant.”

“Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.” (2 Peter 3:13)

“For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body, according to the working by which He is able even to subdue all things to Himself.” (Philippians 3:20-21)

So what if no one recognizes you or says anything encouraging to keep you going. Only eternity will reveal the fruit of all your efforts. You labor because you are called, not because you are accepted and treated with respect. Thus, keep warning when few people listen. Keep writing when only a small fraction of the Remnant will read. And keep trying to get people prepared when your words are smothered or drowned out by frivolous chatter.

The reality is that you do it because God will have a voice right up until the first installment of judgment is delivered. They killed the prophets during the apostasies of Israel, but God had a voice until they were all silenced. They killed faithful Antipas (Revelation 1:13) Who was Antipas? No one knows, but God remembered him. To the apostate religious world and Satan, Antipas lost. But ask Antipas or God if he lost. Are you an “Antipas?” God knows.

The citizens of this world will more vehemently reject the watchmen, truth speakers, and prophets. The watchmen will irritate the cold and casual Christians, and apostates will scorn and join the world in killing them. They will kill them until none are left but two witnesses—prophets—that they will not be able to kill no matter how much they try until they are finished prophesying. Then they will be murdered and lie in the street for three days.

Will people declare that they won? No, they will laugh, sin, and celebrate the deaths of the final voices against their wickedness.

However, just as Christ, three days later they will rise from the dead and be transported to heaven and eternal life! I call that a win! Then the ultimate victory—the eternal win—will be registered by Christ by wrath poured out on this world drunk on the blood of the martyrs.

The task at hand is to redefine “win” so that it agrees with God’s definition. I hereby remove the word “not” from the title of this article. We’re going to win!

33 Comments

  1. What a great article – so encouraging and so true! Thank you Watchman. I will give your article a “like” and will save it, so I can read it again later for future encouragement.

  2. Amen. Please keep posting…..for those of us still reading and watching and praying.
    God bless you for doing so ……

  3. Cedric,

    Bravo!
    This is exactly what I’ve been saying for years!
    What has happened is that people have lost the true eternal perspective and goal of the faith. We know that Christianity has transformed societies for the better wherever it has gone. But that is a by product. Our job is not to turn earth into heaven. God brings the kingdom, not us. But like you said, so many people are focused on the temporal realm, and we can never win in the temporal realm. It is fallen, it is cursed, it is under the ‘god’ of this world, and it is doomed. The destruction of Revelation is coming soon. They are laying treasure onto a sinking ship. Yes, we are the light of the world, but if people think they are going to ‘save the Titanic,’ they will be sorely disappointed. In that we will most definitely not ‘win.’ But part of the apostasy is getting the church convinced that they will be able to save the world. But we won’t. Our success lies not in the things of the world. That does not mean to pull out of all charity work. Those things in the right way are good. But it’s all about what we hang our heart on.

    I too have been doing the job of watching and warning for nearly a decade. I cannot work in any ‘Christian’ organization because the apostasy has flooded every square inch of it, I would not last a day before being ‘shown the door.’ I cannot work in a Christian school for the same reason. I am one of those left with a menial secular job that without God’s provision I would not survive on. I do my job faithfully in diverse venues and God has opened doors for me to do so. But I don’t get any financial gain from it. I don’t get any accolades for it. Quite the opposite in fact. Like others on the front lines, we bear the scars of the true body of Christ in our ministry. It does get very depressing because it seems to all fall on deaf ears. I could have gone back to school and changed careers and be making more money by now, even several times over. But I would not have had the time to daily watch and warn. I made my choice. And the Holy Spirit told me that to bother getting into anything else right now is futile anyway, and with every passing day I see that reality.

    I see a lot of passion about ‘doing good works’ out there and sadly it’s always with the perspective of dominionism, where they think they can ‘usher in God’s kingdom now,’ when they can’t. If they knew that, they would most likely drop all their charity work like a hot potato. Again, we see the difference between Cain and Abel’s offering. The ‘faith’ versus ‘works’ polarity. We win by faith, not by works. We are saved individually by faith in the finished work on the cross, not by our ‘good’ works. Jesus saves us, we can’t save ourselves. The same is true as a whole. We can’t ‘save the world’ by our good works. Only Jesus can ‘save the world’ by restoring paradise at His return after the events of the apocalypse. If we have faith in Him for that, we won’t fall into the deception of the devil’s counterfeit ‘kingdom.’ Again, it is Jesus who saves the world, not us. (Not heretical universalism, not speaking of individual souls here, just the condition under the curse.) But a lot of what I see out there borders on dominionism. Why are they disappointed when a leader is not able to turn the tide against evil? Is it really a surprise?

    I know you are talking about the church’s false hope of success in being victorious over the evil and sin of the world when you refer to ‘win,’ but a similar parallel can be made between our walk as a Christian and the walk of a non Christian in terms of ‘success.’ I once heard an analogy of a fork in the road, where one path was uphill and paved with thorns and rocks and hardships but lead to a glorious castle, while the other path was large, smooth, easy, filled with silver and gold, and sloped downhill but lead to a pit of torment. That is a good analogy!

    ‘Win’ by the world’s definition:

    Get rich and successful quick by cheating and climbing over the backs of others.
    Get famous by emulating the ways of the world.
    Get the world to love you by doing and liking what is wrong, thereby making ‘friends.’
    Live comfortably, your ‘best life now,’ free of trials and refining fires and tribulations.
    Acquire all the material possessions and wealth you can before you die, shiny and fast cars, tv’s that cover the wall, riches and earthly treasures of all kinds.
    Impress others by your physical appearance and abilities.
    Fulfill all the desires of your lust and flesh without strings attached.
    See your name in lights.
    Get promoted to positions of power through fame or fortune.
    Gain the whole world.

    ‘Win’ by God’s definition:

    Be faithful till the end.
    Don’t compromise to get by.
    Be loyal to Jesus no matter the cost.
    Keep your eyes on Jesus.
    Trust in God through the trials.
    Never deny Jesus to save your job, your comfort, or your life.
    Be obedient to God in truth and deed.
    Love God with all your heart, soul, mind, strength.
    Put God first always.
    Don’t leave your first love.
    Be separate from the world and its sinful ways.
    Be loyal in the ministries God gave you.
    Be a faithful witness of the gospel.
    Don’t cower under pressure to comply with sin or heresy.
    Bear the cross daily.

    You will most likely not be applauded, but rather ridiculed. You will be mocked and scorned. You will be poor. You may be lonely. You will be outcast and ostracized by the world. You might even be beaten, put in prison, and martyred.
    You will suffer and you will be persecuted for belonging to Jesus.
    You will be a faithful example of Christ on earth, considered worthy to follow the way of the cross. In the end, you will get a crown of glory because you pleased Him. You will live forever in paradise with God, where there is no more grief, only joy. You absolutely ‘win’! Of course the world won’t see this until the day it is revealed. But there is nothing that can compare to the glorious rewards of this path of the cross!

    Be encouraged!
    ( :

  4. Agree! Amen! I am not discouraged or depressed. I believe the Lord will come very soon to Rapture His church. But we must be vigilant to speak His word and stand for Him, not sit and wait! I don’t think a ‘Christian’ revival will occur until within the tribulation period, after the Rapture. Yes, I hate what I see in politics, laws, perversion glorified and young minds are brainwashed. I hate it! But I know these are signs and I must let go of my emotions, think critically and clearly, and know God has His plan orchestrated for such a time as this. Christians rejoice! for He is coming yet mourn for those who are either hard of heart or choosing to be ignorant. Some of them may repent in those blasted 7 years but some will go with their father of lies.

  5. That’s maybe they need to shift their focus back to the almighty. People can’t save people, read the end of the Bible We Win!! Jesus never lost a fight😍😍😍

  6. Thank you brother for the difficult effort to write this truth.

  7. It is always interesting reading the comments too.

    All over ‘church land’ I see people who…

    1. Are holding their breath for a global revival.
    2. Are hoping to turn the tide against all the sin and evil in the world.
    3. Think they can circumvent the events of the end times prophecy, and usher in God’s kingdom without God.
    4. Think that Trump is their victory card.
    5. Think that before it gets real bad, the ‘pre trib’ rapture is going to snatch them away.

    They don’t want to hear anything ‘negative.’ They can’t handle a sobering dose of reality. But the fact is, all of the above are false. They are so unprepared that it’s scary. It’s going to hit them right between the eyes when reality hits. I have been warning all over the place but comments like that never fail. I guess it’s just going to take the reality of it all to get the point through to them. But I really truly cringe for them since they won’t be prepared. What they are expecting is something totally different than what is going to occur. Part of the apostasy is pumping people up for something positive, whatever that thing is. But it won’t be any of those things. It will be positive in a way that martyrdom is positive. Yet most are so carnal they can’t even appreciate the value in that. God is going to send a real wake up call to the church, and boy, do they need it! I am so downright tired of their ostrich approach denial of ‘all will be well’. Unless they value suffering for Jesus, for being persecuted and martyred for not denying Him, for wearing the martyr’s crown of thorns, for suffering reproach for the gospel, then it won’t ‘be well’ with them at all. From God’s view, it is good. Sadly they don’t share that view and they will see all of this as very very ‘bad’ news. Many will take the mark to escape suffering for Jesus.

    “For to you it has been granted for Christ’s sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake…” Philippians 1; 29

    “…that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.” Philippians 3; 10-11

  8. What a perfect ending. Our race is really about winning in the long run.

  9. So true Cedric, thank you for persisting as a watchman. We may be few and far between but I literally devour articles like yours, I believe God is using you to encourage the rest of us who also sometimes feel despondent when we are ‘attacked’ and ridiculed for speaking against what most people love.

    God bless!!!!

  10. Thank you dear brother for these succinct words. They are words of truth. Our hope is in The Lord, and in His resurrection, and in His Word- the two edged sword which is able to pierce even unto the marrow of the bone…One thing, being peaceful in the great Peace that Passes Understanding, is a great fortress for us right now. It is amazing how peace is such an undoing for all the hate, the lies, the spurious words…for it cannot be undone, and it is maddening to the spirits of Satan who are truly roaming to see whom they can devour. They flee when we are in His Peace….great wall of strong protection, and witness in these days. We can, therefore, pray for our enemies, who are in fact, the enemies of The Christ Who lives within us… ‘they hated Me first, therefore they will also hate you.’ He said this to let us know, that the enemy of our soul, sees and affirms by their hatred, The Living Lord within us. Oh, Amen…Love to You, Our Lord.

  11. Thank you for your encouragement and confirmation..

  12. Love it thank you for posting this.

  13. The citizens of this world will more vehemently reject the watchmen, truth speakers, and prophets. The watchmen will irritate the cold and casual Christians, and apostates will scorn and join the world in killing them. They will kill them until none are left but two witnesses—prophets—that they will not be able to kill no matter how much they try until they are finished prophesying. Then they will be murdered and lie in the street for three days.

    Will people declare that they won? No, they will laugh, sin, and celebrate the deaths of the final voices against their wickedness.

    However, just as Christ, three days later rose, they will rise from the dead and be transported to heaven and eternal life! I call that a win! Then the ultimate victory—the eternal win—will be registered by Christ by wrath poured out on this world drunk on the blood of the martyrs……C.H. Fisher

    I do not know “positively” that I am right concerning what I believe about Revelation chapter 11 but I will try to summarize what I believe this passage about what the “witnesses” could portray. This symbolic language is not something to be taken “dogmatically” and say “this is the way it will happen”. The pre-tribbers say that the 2 witnesses are Moses and Elijah who reincarnate in the flesh. They say that this scenario happens during the tribulation (which they say is 7 years in duration). I am here to tell you this, “the tribulation is NOT 7 years long !!. That stuff is truly from the “Left Behind” crew-nonsense of that diabolical scheme. OSAS at work in that mindset, for sure.

    What I personally think COULD happen is that the 2 witnesses could be “groups” of people rather than individuals. Here’s why. The Bible says this, “1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. 2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty [and] two months. 3 And I will give [power] unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. 4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. 5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. 6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. 7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. 8 And their dead bodies [shall lie] in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. 9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. 10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. 11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. 12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.” [Rev 11:1-12 KJV]

    Notice that verse 4 says that there are 2 olive trees and 2 candlesticks (lamp stands) standing before the God of the earth. There is lot going on in that verse, friends. First there are 2 of each classification equaling 4 total. and verse 3 said there are (2) witnesses. Also they are standing before the God (big G) of the earth. IMO that would not be Jehovah God; instead it would be satan or his man the “little horn” (antichrist). So god should not be capitalized in this verse. So, reading it literally you could say there are 4 groups of people standing before the god of this world, satan. The olive trees represent Israeli entities, the candlesticks represent “church” entities.

    Looking further into the passage, we see that these “witnesses have great powers. But it does not say that they use them, in a literal sense. I know that the sign gifts of the Spirit still exist because I have a couple of them. So possibly this verse is telling us that these last day witnesses are very powerful but they either refuse to use those gifts or God does not let them exercise them because it would be against His prophetical plan for mankind. BUT, they are protected for the first 3 1/2 years of Daniel’s 70th week.

    Folks, I believe we are now FULLY into that first half of the last week of years before the millennial reign of Jesus Christ on a refurbished planet Earth. I truly, truly 100% believe that we are THERE. I try to order my life to this belief. The way I interpret the Bible tells me these things. And that’s my story and I am sticking to it, brothers and sisters.

    This was a very strong word and a good and encouraging post for the remnant of fundamental, Bible-believing true Christians.

    C.H., thank you for staying faithful and letting God use you to continue to warn and testify strongly to the truth and reliability of God’s prophetical Word !!

    ps…..I believe that the resurrection of the “witnesses” portrays the rapture of the true church. If I am right, it will not be a “secret” event as some movies portray but an evident sign to those left on Earth of God’s power to deliver His people from “great tribulation” one more time again, as He has done throughout the ages…… Hallelujah to the Lamb !! Praise God. Praise Jesus. Praise the Holy Spirit !! “One of these days and it won’t be long. we’ll be together at a Family Circle in the sky” !!

  14. The pursuit of holiness

    Another thing that I’ve noticed for years now as I’ve been searching for a church is the lack of holiness. Now I don’t mean just the fact that the apostasy has invaded so it’s ‘not holy.’ It goes further back than that. There used to be a time when people were holy. It was a Spirit filled church. It was not a ‘self righteousness’ sort of thing, but true Biblical holiness. Biblical holiness is when you surrender to the Holy Spirit and His leading in your life. You not only give things up that are not good, but you acquire things that are. You begin to reflect the ways of God and to conform to the image of Christ. This process is called sanctification. It works from the inside out and you feel the cleansing process at work in you, almost like spiritual chlorine. You are transformed into a more spiritual person and the gifts and fruits of the Spirit are the new normal. You may even exhibit ‘the glow.’ You have a passion for pleasing the Lord. You have a love for the brethren and for many good works and ministries. As one is on the way to this, perhaps shortly after being saved, there is a hunger and a passion for growing in holiness. You want to reach that fullness in Christ. The Bible is full of mandates towards holiness.

    But at some point that passion and desire for holiness vanished in the church at large. People were not driven and hungry for holiness. They took on more of a worldly appearance, a mirror reflection of the world and it’s trends. Church leaders began to take on that resemblance and attitude and it was sort of an outreach ‘olive branch’ to a lost congregation that seemed to say ‘See? I’m “just like you”! So you don’t have to fear too much ‘holiness’ here, you’re ‘okay’ just the way you are (in your unrepentant state), so stay, join us, drop your $ in the bag, come to our parties, it’s okay!’ That was the unspoken message. That attitude became the new normal. And any remaining pursuit of holiness was gone with the wind. Now churches are just a place to come and socialize with people who are ‘just like you’ (the assumption being that you are worldly). There is no holiness, and people don’t even care. Churches have even devised slogans to reflect that attitude. “No perfect people allowed” is one of many. There is not even a pretense of pursuing holiness. Even worse than that, those who are exemplifying holiness are scorned and hotly despised. As a result of all of that, the Holy Spirit has left the building, and in its wake, the apostasy has entered. There is no more power in the church as most bask and wallow in sin. All are under that yoke of resembling the world and anyone not in lock step is in jeopardy of suffering the wrath of their peers just like those in high school who don’t conform to the ‘being cool’ rule book. And so the ‘church’ sinks further into seduction by the world and embracing the antichrist.

    It is interesting to notice that the same is true of cults. If you happen to step into the meeting place of a cult or false religion, there is also no presence of the Holy Spirit. There is no true holiness or sanctification at work, since they are not saved to begin with. But there are plenty of counterfeits! Self righteousness, pride, arrogance, and a harsh conformist mind control mentality are some of them. Not only is demonic deception present, but a phony sense of godliness. The whole thing is very scary.

    There are so many deceptive and demonic influences and agents at work all over the landscape. It is so essential to be tuned in to the Holy Spirit and His leading and guiding as we enter these dark days. Many run away from the real deal just because of all the counterfeits. But you can hear God’s voice speaking to your heart, steering you away from danger. That is exactly how I came across the whole discernment ministry area and the life saving warnings. These are the days we need to be listening more than ever and not allowing ourselves to be distracted by every form of diversion this worldly carnival has to offer.

    I just wanted to share this as an exhortation.
    Blessings!

  15. This is so very true. Thank you for speaking the truth. We have already won! Jesus has redeemed us!

  16. Armed with a keyboard, that’s funny….

  17. Amen. This article needs to be widely circulated. I am so lonely but not alone!

  18. When I need encouragement I run to Truth Keepers. After reading your comments I am always uplifted. Truth dose that when you want to listen. My heart hurts for the many that are not walking in the light of truth. They have ears to hear but do not hear and eyes to see but do not see. As the day darkens our light must burn brighter. Thank you again Watchman Lee

  19. Thank you for “encouraging” blog! I spent a full day responding to posts of sincere Christians villifying the president. One criticism: Why is there still abortion? I tried to explain over and over: The president is a limited human being and this is a fallen world ruled by Satan. The forces in place are powerful, demonic and entrenched. Im not idolizing the man but I think he has has well considering what he/we are up against. I recommended being realistic when having expectations for ANY human leader. I even said Jesus who though perfect in every way was still criticized, reviled and eventually murdered. I also wrote that our ONLY true hope was the Second Return of Lord Jesus! Anyway, thanks for sharing these words of wisdom at just the right time.

  20. We need this summary to be read by all churches everywhere. It is not negative, indeed it is positive because it strikes at the very heart of the complacency and false teaching we are subject to. We are not going to win (in a secular sense), this is what started the Roman Catholic system of government. Man, trying to be God, by controlling outcomes rather than obeying the Fathers’ voice. True Christianity is not a comfort religion.

  21. Your message is depressing and enlightening. I believe it has much truth in it. Some of the replies I have issue with simply because I do not believe in a 7 year tribulation. I do not believe the Bible teaches such an event. Only the Father knows, not even Jesus as to when the Judgement day will be here. As one old preacher taught me years ago, “take care to be prepared with what you were taught on the First coming of Christ during your life and you will not have to worry about the Second coming of Christ.”
    Excellent words to live by. Most folks dont understand, for all practical purposes, your Judgement Day is the day you pass from this life. Read about Lazarus and the Rich Man. I will do my best as we all should, to fight the good fight. To be known for Justice, kindness and loving our neighbors as ourselves is good and noble work. Sadly but scripturally you are Right/Correct. Physically in this world, we are Not going to win. Thanks for the reminder and dose of reality. God Bless you & your Work in the Kingdom.

  22. I was disappointed in reading Mr. Hall’s comments regarding Christians that do not agree with his mid-trib stance. Judging from Mr. Hall’s picture, I suspect that I am quite a bit older than he and perhaps my approach has matured. But the timing of the rapture has been discussed for a couple of thousand years and if all of these years of question have been summed up by Mr. Hall, we may well witnessing the wisest ministry that has ever existed in Christ.

    It is okay believing in mid-trib. I happen to be sold on pre-trib. To read your comments, it is immediately evident that attempting to convince you otherwise would not end well. So I would not even try. Why should I. The timing of the rapture has nothing to do with our salvation or with our fellowship in Christ. And our fellowship in Christ is far more important and impactful that our difference in the timing of the rapture. I realize that under different circumstances you may not be condescending and disdainful of those brothers and sisters that do not agree with you. What does that accomplish?

    I read your entire lay out. Nothing new today from my start in the body fifty years ago. But I did read it. And it is okay with me if you wish to live there. Even if it isn’t in agreement with me. But do you realize that you laid out your position and then, for all intents and purposes, stated that any position held by any other Christian is “nonsense”. That puts a strain on developing relationships.

    Anyway, when I see you in heaven, we won’t talk about the timing of the rapture.

    • Patrick……Wow. I must have hit a nerve for you to so mis-characterize what I said in my reply to this post. I do not feel that I disparage any Christians who believe in a pre-tib rapture scenario. I will disparage teachers who teach OSAS or Calvinism. I will call them out if I get a chance. It is sad to think that you think you had to come at me like this. I was just sharing some personal insights from Scripture with the folks on Truthkeepers.com.; my personal beliefs that I try to order my life to. Whatever people believe about the timing of the rapture is their business. When teachers teach what I call easy believism and the OSAS fallacy , I believe it is my calling from God to speak up about those errant false teachings. I will add that many who teach unconditional OSAS also teach a pre-trib rapture.So maybe some might get upset with me for going after their gurus and thereby think I am disparaging the pre-trib rapture scenario. When I say unequivocally that there is NO seven year tribulation, I believe I stand with Bible facts concerning my assertion that the tribulation is less than 3 1/2 years long. Therefore, I cannot be a mid-tribber as you say because no one on Earth knows the length of said tribulation. The old charts started by Clarence Larkin back in the 1800’s are faulty and are not a reliable Bible reference, and as far as I can tell those show the tribuation to be 7 years long, with the Church being raptured before that 7 year period begins.

      In closing, I really wish all Christians would pray and study the prophetical passages in the Bible for themselves and not rely on faddish hyperbole for their families’ future welfare.

      My views on the last days prophetical passages are in my blog named Hey Jude 15 on WordPress.com.

      • I take my stances on prophetical Scripture from my personal Bible study and by using God’s wonderful Spiritual gifts that he bestowed on me. I do not consult other peoples work to corroborate my teachings and insights. I never say, dogmatically, that I am positive my surmisings are 100% correct. I am sure they are not. I try to give my perspective of how things “could” turn out in the future. I usually give Scriptures references for what I say I believe could happen.

        As for subjects like the dogmas of OSAS, easy believism, Calvinism, the pre-tribulation rapture theories, and other errant teachings, I state my beliefs STRONGLY because I believe that people need to be jerked “out of the fire” and possibly prevented from going back “to wallow in the mire”. That is what God has put on my heart to do in the troublesome times. I now use Facebook some to try and make people see the deception of listening to and following “fake Christian news (sometimes non-Christian too). I always try to “spin” the news back to the real root problems. Most of the time people have forgotten and moved on and away from the characters who really are the movers and shakers in the political and religious realm. They have gone to the newest fad and are in real danger of not recognizing the “bad guys”. These charlatans are just laying low and waiting for the hourglass to wind down (really being “restrained” but in their arrogance they don’t even know it). Yes, the “restrainer” is still restraining and he will until God says it is the “time” for ALL things to be fulfilled. Then he will be taken out of the way, and all HELL will break loose in Israel. I truly believe that the restrainer is the arch angel Michael, who is protecting Israel at this time. God will remove that protection one day (soon I believe) and Jerusalem will once again be overrun by the Gentiles (reference Zechariah chapters 12-14, Daniel 12, and 2 Thessalonians 1-2 and others.

        People sit here in the USA (most of us anyway) in their glass houses, watching this country slide into socialism and the church people into APOSTACY and lament our days of yesteryear when things were better. Maybe a little better but the apostacy was not an overnight occurrence. OSAS and Calvinism, easy believism and superficiality in the meeting houses is not an overnight happening. It is the frog in the slowly heating pot of water problem, I am afraid. Call me pessimistic if you must. i consider myself realistic, and hopefully “UNDECEIVED”. What say you. brothers and sisters.

        Again C. H., if we stay faithful. WE WIN, come what may. Keep preachin’ !!

        Folks. Watch Israel and the Middle East. The US is not in Bible prophecy unless we are Mystery Babylon in Revelation 18.

        ps……Patrick. I am no “spring chicken”. I am 69 years old and have been a Christian for 27 years. I was saved at the age of 42. I have been teaching and writing on Christian subjects for about 8 years.

  23. Since things in this world are upside down and backwards, what seems like a win is often really a loss, and what seems like a loss can truly be a win.

    Some things that the world looks upon as losses that are actually wins from God’s perspective:
    1. Persecution for being a Christian and martyrdom as well.
    2. Not getting promoted at work due to your Christian reputation.
    3. Losing friends and others due to your Christian identity and walk with God.
    4. Not ‘getting ahead’ in life by cheating, maybe even falling back due to being honest.

    Some things that the world looks at as wins that are really losses:
    1. Stepping over people to climb up the success ladder.
    2. Taking advantage of others for your benefit and their loss (fortune, fame, pleasure, etc.).
    3. Getting your name in lights (things of the world).
    4. Denying your faith in Christ publicly to spare something else more dear to you.

    The list either way could go on but you get the idea. The world’s value system is inverted, so it should not come as a surprise.

    “But rejoice that you share in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed at the revelation of His glory. If you are insulted for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you.

    But if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but glorify God that you bear that name. ” 1 Peter 4; 13, 14, 16

    …. and soooo many more Bible verses!

    Rejoice!
    : D

  24. Patrick, this site does not endorse OSAS as many here believe we can lose our salvation. In addition, this site does not endorse the pre-trib rapture. If you share your belief in either of these two doctrines, it will not be well received here. Just stating the facts. God Bless!

  25. Well… I’m chiming in again…
    ( ;

    I should share my experiences on a matter and feel that will clarify lots.
    I also felt led, and remain there steadfastly, about no OSAS and no Pre trib. So far I have only run into one other blog like that (Birth Pangs), unless Lighthouse Trails shares that one, on that I’m not sure. I have listed many blogs but of course I don’t share every view, (like on Rather Expose Them, there is some interesting info. at times but among other things, it has become far too politicized in a sense of focusing hope in it). Honestly I did (and I’m sure many feel that way) pray about it, study, was led of the Spirit, to the conclusions I hold now. Many don’t take the time to pray, fast, and search out these matters with all their heart. They listen to wolves who appeal to their flesh. So I have always been one not in a crowd, even on discernment blogs. I took the approach that some will arrive at these conclusions later and I pray for that too. I didn’t write them off as unbelievers as long as they shared the main points of the gospel and so on. I even ran into folks that I would work with to do evangelism and things like that and they seemed like sincere Christians overall. But here’s what happened. Again, I take the approach not to divide over things unless it is a crucial doctrine (like the gospel; Jesus died for our sins, hell is for real, only one way, etc.) and the person is not in major sin, and they at least confess to be born again Christians and that sort of thing. So I was not dividing over what some have called non essentials. But…
    in every case… they divided with me over these same issues. I did not post the issues in the store front window. I did not say my views in an aggressive way. If they shared their views in a civilized way, I shared mine that way too, and left it at that. But with each case, that was not enough for them. They kept pushing and getting more acrimonious over it all.

    Some of the issues included:

    Eternal security
    Timing of the rapture
    Continuationism vs. Cessationism
    Calvinism vs. Arminianism

    Now whatever a brother may proclaim in these things, I did not make them feel ‘unwelcome.’ As long as they knew how I felt and welcomed me too, it worked. Sometimes you can get confused and it gets ironed out later. I was content with that. For some people it takes time to see it. Now for me, I don’t believe in eternal security, I am a Continuationist (gifts of the Spirit and baptism of the Spirit for today), I would fall under the Arminian end of the spectrum, and am neither pre, mid, or post trib (post being after the 7 years). There is a term ‘pre wrath,’ but that depends on when you think it will start. From what I see, there is increasing judgment being poured out and then the bowls of wrath. But at the end comes the final destruction. I feel the rapture will be slightly before that and other clues in Scripture line up with that view. There is so much to the end times details and I came to the conclusion that as long as a brother is willing to die a martyr for the Lord and stand firm in the faith, I will not worry over him. Even if he believes another rapture timing, or eternal security, but that day comes and the storm hits and he loves the Lord and is saved, he will ‘endure to the end’. And whatever the rapture timing is, his soul will be safe. The ones I worry about are those that believe in OSAS and pre trib and that we will be whisked away without a scratch. When the storm of persecution hits and the antichrist gains power, they will not be able to stand firm in their faith. They will cave under the pressure and take the mark of the beast and a host of other ways to perish will come upon them. They had not prepared. They were pampered with tales of comfort no matter what. Then they will feel angry and betrayed when reality does not line up with their dearly cherished views. They may walk out on the Lord over that. This is my concern, that people will not be prepared by knowledge and spiritual preparation necessary to stand firm. I pray for them to see before it’s too late. But I don’t cast them off because they are still pre trib. So I don’t want folks like Patrick to feel like he is not wanted. He may see things differently if he hangs around here a while.
    ( ;
    Now for my experiences… all of those folks that I met that claimed to be saved (and I’m not saying they’re not), they all divided with me over those issues I listed above. They argued with each other over those things also. All the efforts at evangelism collapsed. Each went his own way to go it alone. I did not divide over these issues (and there are things to divide over!), but they did, they felt that since I was not a Calvinist, or not a Cessationist, or did not believe in OSAS, they did not want ‘my views’ to be mingled in with theirs during evangelism. Only I was the one who was right, but I did not make an issue out of it. I have even seen folks get angry with you for not believing in pre trib. It’s like you took away their security blanket and they lash out at you. They all got antagonistic over all these issues and it went downhill from there. Personally, I was tired of their nasty attitudes about it, and people acting like you believe a different gospel of salvation, and maybe are not even saved, thanks to all the wolves out there pushing that claim. The only thing is with Calvinism, Dave Hunt puts a great argument forward that it is ‘another gospel,’ but I never brought that up, I only shared why I wasn’t one using Bible verses refuting each item of TULIP. In a friendly way. But you know how those things go. And that was after they brought up the issue and tried to argue for tulip. Once you share your view, all civility and polite discussion falls apart.

    Suppose a person truly gets saved. They don’t know yet about the timing of the rapture, or predestination and freewill, eternal security or not, etc. Now suppose we didn’t know either. If a person believes OSAS, he is more likely to get comfortable and slowly slip back into sin and eventually go too far. Yet if a person does not believe OSAS, he will be more on guard. Yet wolves out there will claim that if you don’t believe in OSAS, or in Calvinism, you don’t believe in the ‘right’ version of salvation, and therefore cannot be saved. Yet, you got saved! You believed what was necessary and turned to Jesus. On one famous blog I even had one of the administrators claim that if I ‘believed in freewill,’ I was headed for hell! Of course he was wrong, since freewill to believe the gospel is in the Bible. But that is the sort of angry, bad tempered, hostile claim that you will be met with if you don’t agree with their peculiar views. Now for pre trib. If you believe in a later view, like me, you are psychologically prepared for bad times. So whatever the timing would be, you would be prepared. But the one who is set up for pre trib, if it isn’t pre trib, he will be in for a rude awakening and totally unprepared. There is a danger in believing these things. If you are ready to die for Jesus right now, you should be okay anyway. But the fact is… and we all know it…. most are not. And if it is not pre trib, and there is no OSAS, you may very well not be okay, especially in the days to come.

    The only reason I share this is as an example to learn from in a friendly way.
    : )

  26. It’s very encouraging to read articles like this. To know that there are others out there experiencing the same things that I am experiencing. It can get rather lonely, then you read something like this and you don’t feel so alone, or at least it helps you tolerate the isolation. We have a job to do,and attur watchman wouldn’t quit anyway. Hang in there guys, it’s almost over.

  27. Thank you for this message! I needed to hear someone else make that point. I get fatigued and discouraged at times, but I have to remember that my only purpose is to please the Lord and serve where He leads me. God bless you and MARANATHA!

  28. You speak the truth…insightful and thought-provoking. Thank you.

  29. One final thought on winning and losing.

    Many people don’t get it. But as a true Christian, you are in a win-win situation. If you aren’t saved, you are in a lose-lose situation. All that matters most is where we spend eternity. But even for this life it has an impact.

    For the Christian:
    1. If things go smooth and well and you are ‘blessed’ by the world’s standards… you have an opportunity to use it for God’s glory. The details depend on the blessings and the opportunities they present. You also have a comfort zone to grow in the Lord.
    2. If you are not ‘blessed’ by the standards of the world, you are still blessed, so do not fret. The Bible says we will suffer trials and tribulations and it’s impossible to ‘enter the kingdom’ otherwise. The world suffers too, but not to their benefit. Quite to the contrary, when the Christian suffers, God uses that for our good and growth. He is refining us. He is growing our faith, trust, and dependence on Him. We learn to live by faith. The things that matter most shine through and our priorities are orbited around His will and what matters to God. He uses bad things for our good. After suffering these things, we are also able to identify with others who are currently suffering them and can better minister to their needs and they know we understand. This is exactly the case with Christ as our High Priest who suffered as a human and can relate to what we are going through and He was victorious and gives us power as well. The world sees that we are victorious overcomers through Christ in bad times as well as good. We are not merely ‘fair weather’ followers.
    Romans 8; 28, Acts 14; 22, etc.
    3. If we suffer specifically for belonging to Christ, great glory rests upon us according to the Bible. We also identify with Christ in special ways. The Bible also says we are to rejoice when suffering persecution for the name of Jesus. Even if it is just for righteousness sake, say we are not willing to bribe someone so we suffer even if they don’t know we are a Christian, we are still blessed.
    1 Peter 4; 14, Matthew 5; 10-12
    4. Even if we lose our lives in martyrdom for the name of Jesus, we have won the race and crossed the heavenly finish line in glory and a crown awaits us. Revelation 2; 10, John 21; 19
    So in a nutshell… we can’t lose. It is impossible! The only way to lose is to deny Jesus in a moment of weakness. Matthew 10; 32-33. The devil tries to get Christians to do that all the time and that’s why, because he knows it matters. Most Christians don’t see this because their heavenly perspective is off, as are their priorities. We are not going to ‘win’ in the natural domain, in the earthly realm. That battle only Jesus wins in the end and those of us who know our Bibles know how the end times prophecies go. To try to ‘take the world for God’ is a losing battle and a waste of our time. Yes, it’s good to make a positive difference when you can, outlaw abortion, help the needy, and shine a light in many ways. Just keep a real perspective so you don’t get discouraged! He sent us out to share the gospel. All that is eternal is heaven, what’s in it, and our souls (and hell). If we are sharing the gospel and souls are getting saved, we are winning. Nothing has an eternal impact aside from evangelism.

    As for the non Christian, he is lost in every way. The only quasi-blessing he may have is a family and material wealth. He can’t take any of it with him when he dies. And, most unsaved use it to their own destruction like drugs and so on. It owns them instead of the other way around and they get angry because it doesn’t make them happy and they never have enough. It will never satisfy their soul. Many families and marriages end up broken as a result also, and their love is disposable, temporary, shallow, carnal and superficial often times. If they don’t receive Christ, they lose in the next life but in this life as well. They don’t have our joy and love and peace and relationship with the Lord, their souls are empty and they are frustrated and angry and I see it all the time.

    And as for the rulers of the temporary domain, they may think they are winning but in the end they lose big. They may be laughing now, but just remember… we get the last laugh!

    You can’t lose with Jesus. But without Him you are already lost.
    There was never an easier choice to make in life!

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